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Fuck
Injury
mudcub
2007 was the year I stopped loving my boyfriend. That's a loaded word: "love". Sure, I still love him, but now it's in a different way.

To recap:

  • I met my boyfriend in 1994. I was 24, he was 48. We met in a leather sex dungeon, so I can't really complain that my partner is vanilla, or that he doesn't like kinky sex.
  • But after a few years of the relationship, the sex died out. I turned to jacking off by myself, and flirting with guys on the internet.
  • Even now, every night, I still get my partner off. I play with his nipples and dick while he jacks off. But I have no desire for his to reciprocate.
  • I don't know why I don't what my partner to touch me. It could be that I'm not physically attracted to me. Or it could be a weird slave mentality where I don't think I'm worthy of pleasure in return. Or it could be a childish method to punish him. Or a passive-aggressive attempt to end the relationship. I've got a bunch more reasons, but none of them seem to fully explain the situation.
  • I'm not sure why my partner accepts this arrangement, but I know why I stick around. I love the guy.
  • I told my partner two years ago that monogamy wasn't working for me. He said he'd "think about it". Nothing happened.
  • My boyfriend said that he would leave me if I ever cheated on him.
  • I started cheating on my boyfriend in 2007. There was a leather top who would do horrible, wonderful things to me every Wednesday afternoon. Plus, he is emotionally distant, so I knew we'd never start a relationship. It worked pretty good for about three months.
  • In a comedic turn of events, the entire Denver leather community found about my infidelity when I hit "reply all" to an email, instead of replying to a personal email to that leather top. Oops.
  • Lots of fighting with the the boyfriend. Man, I didn't know I could cry so much. My boyfriend and I would talk and fight and cry for hours every night, It got to the point where I would dread coming home after work, because I knew that a long emotionally draining talk would ensue. Hours of agony every night.
  • So that's how I stopped loving my boyfriend. Enough pain, and eventually I didn't give a shit anymore if he left or not.


Please keep in mind that the above chronology is mine, and that you're only hearing half of the story. My boyfriend might disagree. For example, I remember trying to convince him to open the relationship for a year before I started cheating on him. He remembers things differently. Did we fight before I found out I was screwing around? I think so... but now I'm not sure. Maybe I'm just a bad person, and was unfaithful before I tried working things out. I like to think that I tried to talk to him before things turned to shit.

I want an open relationship where I share *all* the details of my infidelities. For example, if my partner goes out and gets a "little strange" I want to know how long it was, and what they did. What positions were attempted. What fluids were shot in what places. I don't have any jealousy... I'm happy for him to get laid. For example, about three months ago, my partner found a boy of his own. I'd say that we have a polyamorous threesome, but the new boy doesn't seem to like me very much. The new boy wants monogamy, and is waiting around for the primary relationship to break up. But I couldn't be happier that the two of them are fucking like crazy. At least someone in the house is getting some.

I think I expected my partner to eat shit and smile. I wanted him to book an afternoon session for me with a bondage master, pack me lunch, and send me off with a kiss on the cheek and a smile. It turns out that he is nowhere near ready for that level of unemotion. Instead, we have a "don't ask don't tell" sort of detente, where I arrange secret meetings with various Denver men, and cover it up with stories about how I'm working late. Recent business trips out of town have been a great cover. Man, I really hate this arrangement, but I really like the sex. I've got to meet some wonderful men this year, and I really treasure some of the friendships I've made. However, I'm not sure how long this lifestyle can last. It's exhausting trying to find hours in the day for taking care of my boyfriend, as well as booking time for a trick.

In a way I'm happy for this turn of events. I think in my twenties, I had a rather co-dependent form of love for my partner. I was his boy, and I did a lot of things that I didn't like so I could pretend to have a perfect gay relationship. I went to a lot of boutiques, I did a lot of antiquing and shopping. Cocktail parties and brunches. I bought a big beautiful house and filled it with pretty things - none of which I wanted. Hey, don't feel too bad for me... there were trips to Spain and France and dining out and lots and lots of cuddling. But now, I have more of a relationship with my boyfriend as equals. I don't feel like I am subordinate to him anymore, and that's good at the same time it's a little said.

I feel like I've moved on, but I'm still stuck with this old life. I'm tired of the gay scene. I'm tired of small talk, of frilly shirts, and beer busts. I'm tired of living 90% of my life where nobody really cares where I am or what I'm doing. I want to go out and get a little dirty and muddy. I've got a head full of new hobbies and a shitload of new kinky fantasies. No of which my old partner shares with me. I'm kind of on a personal journey of discovery, and the biggest problem is that first adjective... it's "personal". I can't really bring my boyfriend along with me on the trip. But at the same time, I love the guy to death, and I don't want to break up over some illusion.

Fuck.

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Wow Mud... I could copy paste this as my last relationship. Except he wasn't really a SIR and I convinced myself he was. My story ended after 1.5 years of debating the decision I knew had to be made. That I needed a SIR or a "family" that could better fit my needs.

Wow, really really powerful post.

Thank you for being so brave. Stay true, stay strong. :)

-son chris

Damn, brother. I hurt for the both of you, but I have no real words of support that wouldn't sound trite or shallow. I hope 2008 is better for you both, that this pain gets addressed, that things mend for you both in a direction that makes you both deliriously happy, whatever direction that may be.

Thanks, man... but life's pretty good, really. Sorry for the LJ drama!

There are so many things I want to say--but words are just that--words; only you know the how/what/when/where/why regarding the right thing to do.

I wish I knew you better, baby.

I may have told you this before. I met my ex-Bf (also named Patrick) when he was 23 and I was 46. It was great for a few years, but it became clear we didn't want the same things. I've been unable to move on, he has. On bad days, I'm still pissed off at him.

But he did the right thing for himself. And you should too. Because he was never really going to change, and neither was I.

Life can be heartbreaking.

Watch out for those guys named "Patrick"... they're a lot of trouble! {grin}

Edited at 2007-12-27 11:51 am (UTC)

there are quite a few parallels in our lives. I met my partner when i was 24 and he was 48, also...i grew up in this relationship. This last year has been one of discovery of who I am and who I want to be (still don't know that one). Kevin tried to adapt to the changes of who I have become, but in the end it wasn't enough. (this is where we differ)

I also dreaded coming home cos of the discussions we were going to have. After my therapy sessions, Kevin would want to talk about what I talked about in therapy, and that was too much for to deal with...I overprocessed on many ocassions...

I still love him tremendously and that is never going to change. I type this as I sit amongst my packed boxes of 7 years of memories and "us", as I get ready to move to my new studio apartment tomorrow. This is what I want and at this point, its what is best, but its heartbreaking for both of us. Xmas eve, i hugged and kissed Kevin, and he said (through some sobbing) "I don't want you to leave..." fuck that was hard to hear, and of course I lost it completely, in turn. I too have cried more this year than any before.

who knows whats next for any of us? all we can keep doing, is do the next right thing, and hopefully that brings us the joy and freedom we want...

sorry about getting off track. I guess I needed to let some of that out too...*hugs*

No.. wow... that was beautiful. I was hoping someone would connect with what I was saying like that.

So, the alternative seems to be a series of relationships that crumble over and over again. I'm not sure I want to do that.

Three things to consider:

Loving someone is not the same as being *in* love and is definitely not the same as being able to grow with them.

Breaking up over some illusion is a valid concern and would be even more of a concern if you parted ways because of a specific other person, rather than for the more grounded reason of acknowledging you really aren't the best-suited partners for one another anymore.

Ask yourself if you see yourself content and fully comfortable with one another and if you will continue to be that way in 5 years... 10 years... etc. Or are you going to look back feeling like you settled because you were too comfortable to take the scary leap of change and fearful of ending up alone? Are you going to end up resenting him?

i was married to a good guy and i can understand the challenges involved in trying to decide whether or not to end a relationship.

Whatever your choice, may it offer you the right path for your heart and spirit.

Respectfully,
~ pug


My partner and I are looking for different things in an open relationship. He's looking for a second boyfriend - a longterm lasting romantic connection with another man. I'm looking for kinky and frisky leathersex... a large variety of different sexual acts with a bunch of different guys (all performed safely of course).

Yeah, as a young cub, I think I was in love with the idea of being in love. I wanted the longterm relationship because it proved that I wasn't a bad person. I mean, I may be a cocksucker, but my marriage lasted longer than Newt Gingrich's.

THe worst thing I can say about myself is that I think I'm just waiting for my boyfriend to die, and then my real life can start...

Edited at 2007-12-27 03:36 pm (UTC)

I've been the older guy, twice. We weren't at the same place in our lives, and each had things to accomplish that were too different. I didn't want to spend 15 years repeating the part of my life that my boyfriend had yet to live.

But that's not what you are going through. You are in a unique place in a unique relationship.

At some point you will be able to figure out whether you can keep doing love -- the verb -- in this relationship, and that will tell you what path to follow. What love is does change... I love my husband more deeply every day, but that love is quite different from what it was years ago.

Have you read The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People?

I should read that book! It would help a lot with my job. Thanks for the reminder.

I hate to be prejudiced, but I'd have a hard time dating an 18 year old who had never lived by himself (without his parents) or who had never owned a VISA card before. I had a lot of hard lessons to learn in my twenties (like what a "minimum monthly payment" was and how it could really suck). I think it would be hard to partner with someone at such a different stage in his life.

At the same time, age has never really been a big deal between my partner and I. He's a sweet kind man who avoids the usual gay sarcasm, and I love him for that. The fact that he's not into Daft Punk seems to pale in importance to his heart.

Mmmmm.... sounds like the "I love you, but I'm not IN love with you" moment happening there... which happens in a LOT of relationships. A LOT. At least you have TRIED to open up the possibilities, to keep the special bond and friendship alive.

My partner of 10 years and I had a 22 year age difference between the 2 of us - and at the time, it was what I needed. Security. It was a co-dependent relationship, but without the ability for me to speak my mind...

In the end, through therapy, I became a stronger person, and he couldn't handle that. I had to leave. Not for another person, but to allow ME to become the person I SHOULD have been.

I hope that you can find the same path.

*hugs*

so, do you still love him, or not?

horrible question to ask, but it's really as simple as that.

I dunno how much of my history you've read, but I'll give you a short recap... I figured out I was gay when I was 19, just after getting out of the Marines. I moved in with a guy 10 years older than me, I taught him how to manage his money, how to love somebody, and then I broke his heart when I screwed around with another guy. He left, after about 18 months, and moved back home with his parents.

I floundered around for a while, then met another guy about 10 years older than I was, WE moved in together, taught each other a lot about how to survive in life (like, how to get a decent job, live on a budget, etc) but we never really had sex. Cuddling, hugging, and the occasional throwing of pots and pans, but not sex. I bit him so hard I broke his rib once. The scar was still there 5 years later. One day I said to him "I think it's time for you to move out" and he didn't argue. He had his own place within the month and was gone.

Now. I still love them both. The fact that I hardly speak to either of them doesn't change how I feel. If either of them asked me for something, I'd give it. I think they know that. But, living with either of them is totally out of the question.

Now, the "current" relationship.... we're going on 10 years now. For the first time I'm the older guy. (granted, I'm only 5 months older, but still) I've come to the "you need to find somewhere else to live" point with him several times. He won't leave. The bastard. I know he screws around with other guys, he always has. I would, given the right opportunity. When we got together, I used to say I married the best cocksucker in NYC. I wasn't kidding. He's had a LOT of practice, on a LOT of cocks. Does he still suck any dick that gets stuck in his face? I have no idea. I don't REALLY care. This relationship, as opposed to my past ones, was open from the start. I knew he was playing with other guys. He knows I might be playing with other guys. He also knows I come home and sleep with him, cuddle with him, shave his head, and drive him crazy. It's a very comfortable arrangement. Is it love? Some people would point and say "you've not had sex in 8 years! it can't be love"... I counter that with "it's been 10 years and we still get along with each other, no matter that we're both next to impossible to live with"

He knows I'm looking for a "boy". and not a part-time, some-time type of "boy" either, but one that I can have at home, with me, all the time. He also knows that I'd share said boy, I'm not selfish, and I've got the potential to love more than just 1 person at a time.

Someday I'll find my "boy". maybe someday he'll find somebody steady to screw around with. hell, maybe he has. he DOES go to a lot of "plays" and "shows" and "operas", but, we're in NYC, so I have no idea how many of them are "sex" and how many aren't. Honestly, I don't care.

That being said, there are a few things I don't tolerate. At "summer camp" a few years ago, somebody who's got a bit of shared history with me asked if he could play with my boyfriend. now, it's summer camp. nobody had ever ASKED my permission for that, I mean, he's his own man, he goes off and does his thing. but this guy asked. So, I told him, sure, go do your thing, just DO NOT do it where I have to watch. What does the dumb fucker do? Proceed to string up my puppy, my boyfriend, my lover, in the middle of the compound, in the most open, exposed spot he can find, and go to work with a single-tail. That really pissed me off. If he'd not asked me, and just done it, I'd have gone somewhere else until it was over. but the bastard flaunted it. doing something to my puppy that my puppy wouldn't even consider letting me do to him. I gave him a few minutes. Waited till I was REALLY pissed off, then walked up behind him, grabbed his whip-hand as he was bringing it back, and said to him "you're done. let him down, now"

Now, puppy and I don't exactly talk about feelings much. he's not into that. I've gotten used to it. Doesn't mean I like it tho. We've got a "houseguest" in the basement right now, guy moved to NYC, started a new job... and I can sit and talk to him, for hours sometimes.



Re: so, do you still love him, or not?

well, damn the "4300 character limit" to hell.

... and I can sit and talk to him, for hours sometimes. I kinda miss that with puppy.

Anyway. Bottom line. It's possible to still love the guy but not be "in
love" with him. It's possible to love him, and not want to live with him.
Do what YOU want to do. Have fun, it's your life. Don't spend it sitting
around waiting for him to die. He'll probably live till he's 120 years old,
and then you'll have wasted a good part of your life waiting for something
that's not gonna happen for a long long time.

Re: so, do you still love him, or not?

Wow! No offense, but it sounds like your relationships have been waaaay more complicated that mine! {grin} Thanks for sharing - I'm still reading over your post and thinking about it.

I'm pondering several points:

1) From informal LJ polling, it sounds like monogamous relationships only last 2-5 years before they implode. There's always the 30 year marriage to refute that statistic, but I'm going to hearsay
2) I'm told open relationships are all about setting "boundaries", though that's really difficult in practice. Maybe it's an impossible goal, and hopelessly naive. Maybe guys don't like to talk, and it's only when the special situations happen that the shit hits the fan
3) Why does sex fade in a relationship over time?
4) How can an emotional bond last longer than a physical one? Why is that emotional bond so strong and persistent?
5) Yeah, I love my partner. To answer your question. But it's turned from a codependent boy/Daddy thing into equal partners. What I crave is a Master/slave dynamic in my life, and it's been hard to work that into the current relationship. Still, I don't want to break up. A tough situation.

Just my thoughts tonight... thanks.

Re: so, do you still love him, or not?

Yeah, well, I didn't mention that by the time I was 25 years old, I'd picked up everything I owned and moved 26 times. I have not been afraid of saying "this isn't working, and it has to end" in the past. It's not even that I am afraid of it now, just that the puppy refuses to leave. He's very... persistent.

To address your points...
1) men are pigs. men want sex. thus, due to #3, monogamy fails. This is my theory on why so many str8 couples get divorced.
2) boundaries are easy. getting him to agree to them is the hard part. You decide what you want, and you put your foot down, and say "this is what I want" either he gives you what you want, or you start talking. either is better than sitting there wishing you could have something and not getting it.
3) because men are pigs. :) no, really. ok, for me, it's because I grew up with a parent who was a teacher, always encouraging me to learn more, do more, and well, doing the same thing, the same way, over and over, it's just. boring. _I_ want something new, different, a change. Sometimes that change is a different guy. :)
4) do you still love your parents and siblings, even tho you've not lived in the same house with them for years? don't MOST people? So why would it be so uncommon to be able to have that kind of feeling for someone that you met when you were grown? it's not like you grow out of the ability to reserve a part of yourself that loves someone unconditionally....
5) equal partners sounds nice. if it's really equal. from what you've described tho, he gets what he wants, and you go behind his back and get what you want. you've met his "boy", but has he met any of your temporary "masters"? hell, would you want him to? Are you afraid to break up because you fear change? Or do you think what you've got is just too good to "throw away"? Is it that you're comfortable where you are? Is he ever going to be able to give you what you need from him?

From my standpoint, I know puppy will never be able to give me everything I need in a relationship. That doesn't mean I don't love him, and hell, the fact that we've been together 10 years and not killed each other means something. I'm ok with things the way they are with him, but that doesn't mean I'm not looking for somebody else to "fill in the holes" so to speak.

God, I hope this isn't too long this time, damnit.

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