My problem with "ex-gay" success rates is that all the participants of Exodus International actively searched out the program and entered it with a strong desire to change. It's a self-selecting sample, creating a huge bias. I'd like to test that theory, with your help.
So, my question is: how many of you out there have ever tried to change your sexual orientation? Of course, this is also a self-selecting sample, only recording my gay, lesbian, and transgender friends who read my LiveJournal, and who felt like responding. The best idea would be randomized sample of all people, gay or straight... but doing that large of a survey would be impossible (finding subjects, people refusing to answer, lying, defining homosexuality, etc.) However, I want to see how many LJers have tried to become straight and failed.
Have you ever tried to change your sexual orientation? And how?
Entered a dedicated long-term "ex-gay" conversion program
1(1.2%)
Attended one or a few short-term sessions, each lasting a weekend or month or so
0(0.0%)
Went to a few "ex-gay" meetings or lectures, but never seriously joined any program
0(0.0%)
Tried to "pray the gay away" with a church group or counselor
4(4.7%)
Studied on your own, reading "ex-gay" books or websites
0(0.0%)
Used pure force of will to banish gay thoughts, or stopped masturbating
18(20.9%)
Never ever tried to change your sexual orientation
63(73.3%)
I am "ex-gay"
0(0.0%)
Without prejudicing the results by sharing my hypothesis, I'm guessing that 99% of my gay friends have tried not to be homosexual at some point in their lives. Either during adolescence and puberty, or perhaps at a catastrophic low point in our lives. I'd bet that almost all gay men in the US have tried to become straight, even if only for a week or two (or a day) and failed. That's over 12 million failures.
Exodus International only has 120 local ministries in the US. Even if one hundred men are enrolled at each ministry (a huge overestimate) and if it is indeed true 90% of them are cured each year, that's only 10,000 successful "ex-gays". That's not even 0.001% of the total estimated US gay population! Is Exodus International proud of the fact that only one *thousandth* of a percent of gay men in the US are converting sucessfully to become "ex-gay"? Are they saying that their cult is the only one that works?
Note: results and comments are not anonymous
That's on top of the fact that, as you say, they're self-selected to want to do this.
I answered "never ever" - because I haven't. I don't consider some angst over the issue while coming to grips with it to really count. Once I realized that, yes, I'm gay - over and done with.
I was wondering about angst. So, internal turmoil really doesn't count? My theory is that some attempt to be straight had to be made by taking a notable action: dating only girls for an extended period of time, or throwing away a collection of gay pornography. Did the angst last longer than a week?
Edited at 2009-03-16 10:27 pm (UTC)
Thanks, and I'm glad you're gay. I welcome you like a brother! As for those closeted self-hating gay men who claim they are straight... well, maybe it's best to "thin the herd". There are some people we don't want in our club!
So I put down never tried to change my sexuality, just acknowledged I was and let it go from there.
And, from the moment I realized that I was gay, I have never wanted, or attempted, to be straight. I do occasionally engage in the pursuit of wondering what I would be like if I were straight, but not because I want to.
I'm definitely in the wouldn't change to straight if I could category. (I mean, if it was necessary for the survival of humanity for me to get a woman pregnant and help here raise the children, I could, but that is far from being the case.)
It is often said that gays are threatened by bisexuals. Particularly, but not exclusively in the case of bisexual males, there is a presumption that bisexuals are not willing to give up the acceptance of heterosexuality. I personally have had several bisexuals confide to me that they are more comfortable in same-gender relationships, but want to be viewed as "normal."
Is your presumption that all gays would change if they could, juxtaposed with your outing yourself as bisexual, trying to tell us something?
>if they could, juxtaposed with your outing yourself
>as bisexual, trying to tell us something?
Wow! You always play hardball, Sir. My conclusion was exactly the opposite... most gays stay gay because they couldn't change even if they wanted to. Which they don't. Only a very small minority can become asexual, and fewer than that can truly "change" = those that were probably bisexual in the first place. I didn't mean to imply that all gays wanted to do be straight. I enjoy too many things about gay culture (bikers! getting dirty! being piggy! rough sex! blue collar guys! wrestling! ah... there are too many things to cite) to wish to solely live in a straight world (titty bars! forced monogamy! swingers! accidental pregnancy! objectifying women! hugh hefner!). My outing was incidental to the post, not related.
I was really off by my 99% prediction. Fewer of my friends have tried to change than I expected. Perhaps coming out as gay is nice because you can stay in the closet until you are ready... by the time you make your mind up, you've made your mind up and there is no reason to second guess yourself. I was waaaay wrong about that. Maybe because I'm bisexual I could have an easier time of having sex solely with women if I had to. So, to me it might have been a conscious choice: I could stay straight and live a loveless but easier life in the straight world, or I could admit I liked guys and go for the glory of hot sex, intense connections, and bears. (bears!)
For the record, I'm just theoretically bisexual... the opportunity for meeting women hasn't arisen often since I live and play in the gay ghetto of the bay area. I just like kinky people: men, women, FtM, MtF, unlabeled. I just find it easier to meet men that are into what I'm into.
Edited at 2009-03-17 12:26 am (UTC)
As far as I'm concerned, there is no church or religion that's an expert on anything of relevance to me. I felt angst over acceptance by family and friends, but never thought that the Bible was the final "word" on anything. It is a work of fiction, not fact. Nor, does it contain any truth about sexuality, straight, Gay or anywhere on the continuum.
Did I do anything on your list to change that fact, or do anything beyond wishing? Nope....
I've always enjoyed being gay. If there was any way I could be even gayer, I'd do it.
I did have some guilt at one time about being kinky. Until I actually got kinky with someone else.
Now I save all the guilt for the Hostess snack cake I'm about to eat! Oy!
& what's that mock religious website -- Betty Bowers? I wish someone would put together an "ex-straight ministry" website. It'd be a lot of fun to set up the reorientation program.
I am going through this right now, coming out as a fetishist is much harder for me than coming out as a gay man. and man do I feel that guilt, and some shame from time to time.
I can feel the closet door beginning to swing open, but as of it, it still is holding me in a bit.
But I am transgender (in the sense of not identifying as what my parents announced me to be when I was a baby), and I did grow up in a right wing religious community, and I was out from a very young age (preschool), and I did try to suppress it, and I did get "help" from rabbis and a therapist. It didn't work. The best I could do was hide any gender expression; the gender expression they wanted from me hurt horribly and I never got anywhere with it.
Going on hormones strongly affected my sexuality, although not enough to direct it at people in any useful way.
Unlike your other commenters (by the way) I don't see anything wrong with trying to change your sexual orientation. I think more people are bisexual than want to admit it.
So, gay guys stay gay. I don't even have an interest in exploring other gender roles. To me, if I tried to be a "sissy maid", it would be so ridiculous that it's kind of offensive to the law of nature. So, while you've thought about gender a *lot*, I'm sure... a lot of gay guys are clueless. I'd love to hear more about your journey and "stuff".
Nyet!
I hate thinking back on that period of time of 'questioning', though. Today, I'd judge that _all_ the internal resistance was related to isolation, perceived or real, not trying to wish away the gay. Hell, it was 'the gay' that made me feel ALIVE.
Meanwhile, a propos of nothing (translate-don't read into this, it's just associations), I'll share my favor lines from the movie "Three to Tango", in which Oscar's friend, Peter, covers for Oscar, who is pretending to be gay, at a formal affair in front of the guy from who they are trying to get awarded an achitectural contract:
http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/t/three-to-tango-script-transcript.html
"
[boss's wife?]
I'd like to introduce you
to Oscar Novak and Peter Steinberg.
[boss/Charles]
Congratulations. Your design is superb.
We were just discussing it.
[Oscar]
I'm sorry. This is...
...my girlfriend, Amy.
And, Amy, this is...
...my boss, Charles.
[Charles]
I'm sorry.
Aren't you gay?
[?wife?]
Excuse me?
Didn't I read that you were gay?
[Oscar]
Well, yes, I am. [long awkward pause]
Sometimes.
[Oscar's friend, Peter, jumping in to save the day]
Oscar's omnisexual.
He swings...
...every which way.
Most gays don't want me, or care that I exist. Most gays perceive me as straight because of my appearance.
I'm left with an ever-shrinking 1% of the gay community.
Too bad I ain't more mainstream.
Kinsey or Klien
Chuck