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Urinal
mudcub


I've been posting my profile on recon.com looking for a leather Master. I get more luck there than on bear411.com or bearciti.com. The bears tend to ignore me, probably scared off by my... um... more *esoteric* interests.

I've noticed something about the ads on recon for Masters and slaves.

The ads for Masters almost always focus on the service: what the slave will do, and how he will behave. Some of that is to be expected, as in, "What can you do for Me?". But I find it odd that fetishes are usually left at the end as an afterthought. You'd think that the thing that thrills a Master would be upfront - but most of their profiles detail the type of relationship the Master desires. Meanwhile, the ads for slaves often feature laundry lists of kinks, with an addendum that the slave will also serve gladly and willingly.

A quick glance must suggest that most of the slaves on recon aren't slaves at all. They are only in it for the sex, and treat slavery as some sort of "Super Bottom" role that they can play whenever they feel like it. This might be true... it's a common cliche for new slaves. I've been accused of it time and time again, when I know in my heart that it isn't true in my case. But I think that something else entirely is going on...

If I was a Master (and part of me is...) the thing that I would worry about is that I'd fall in love with a slave who is flakey. Who doesn't follow orders, and who won't follow wherever I lead. Someone who has no time for me, and for whom I am just a secondary priority in their busy life. One of the most demoralizing things for a Top is a to plan their deepest darkest fantasy as a scene, only to have the slave look up and say, "That's stupid - I'm not doing that!" In my Master profile, I want to make sure that any prospective slave knows that I'm serious about this, that I expect a lot, and that if they are just in it for themselves to go look elsewhere. I demand good service.

But as a slave, service is the furthest worry from my mind. I've got that covered. I'm a slave, and I know at my core that I will lovingly try to make the Master as happy as I can. I have no doubts that I can cook, clean, or perform any other task that is set in front of me to the best of my ability. Service is not a problem... it is the reason I am a slave in the first place. Instead, what terrifies me is the sex. Either the Master is solely into something I'm not (like wanting me to be a spanking bottom 24/7), or that the Master won't let me indulge in something that is my core fetish. Either way, I fear giving up control of my body, my mind, and my life to someone who will break the new toy he is given.

In reverse, as a Master, sex is not a problem. I will control how much sex he boy has and what we will do. And I'm not a cruel person (at least not all the time). I'd let the slave indulge himself occassionally with some weird kink that I'm not into. I'd let the slave cum just enough so he doesn't go crazy and leave me. I'm not stupid. If the boy is true and faithful... everything else follows.

So, in my view, Masters worry about service, but know that the sex is covered. Meanwhile, slaves know they can serve, but fear what the sex will be like. To me, that's why the Master and slave profiles are so lopsided.

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Re: Have you tried:

That's the same site as recon.com. It's an umbrella for a bunch of sites: slave4master.com, worldrubbermen.com, and littlepixies.com. Ok, ok, I made that last one up.

Edited at 2008-06-20 09:04 am (UTC)

and I am most definitely *not* afraid

Edited at 2008-06-20 09:41 am (UTC)

Re: You can be my boy....

oh, woof. Patrick, you had best be following up with this one.

:)

Are all the profiles you've viewed from would-be slaves? There are plenty of variations on submission that don't involve slavery at all.

I put my laundry list first because the most important thing to me is that my limits are obeyed. Limits are for stretching, but some Dom's believe that they're only suggestion. While this may prove true for some who are submissive-minded, many would disagree.

I think you still prove my point. I know a lot of couples where there are so safe words. That doesn't mean that there are no limits... far from it. Sometimes the slave has a huge set of things he is uncomfortable with. But their relationship is so connected that there is never a need to say "red". The Top reads it in the boy's eyes.

I'm actually not a fan of people who brag, "I don't use safewords" as if it's some badge of honor. But if you were my boy, there would be no need for you to tell me a long list of limits up front. We'd talk like equals over the space of days (months! years!) and when the subject of needles came up (for example), I'd understand your fears better than a simple sentence of "hard limit". By that point, it's not a simple issue of you doing something or not doing it.

Patrick, not all slaves or subs are like that. i been taught that a good profile for a sub is to say that you are ready to serve and the type of Dom you are looking for. When you put a laundry list up, you tend to limit yourself as well as turn some good Masters off because you look like your only in it for sex.

The following is my profle on Recon. i had a lot of help with this so that i can show apotential Dom what i am seriously am after and to tell them that i am ready
Looking to serve a Dominant man/men. I have learned a
lot from previous Sirs, but of course could use further training with a particular emphasis on old guard traditions and protocols.

Stats are 32, 6'5�, 450lbs, and size 16-18 size feet,
slightly furry, and a 7.5"� thick cut cock. I identify as a boy/submissive.

Looking for a Dom/s that is masculine, nicely built,
naturally dominant and that has the patience to help me learn.

This boy serves with Respect, Honor, Loyalty, and
Love as both a service and a play submissive.

I am a bootblack at the Detroit Eagle
and Woof's in Columbus and will be competing in the
IML bootblacking competition.
If you have questions please don't hesitate to ask.

Thank you.


hope this helps

But I think that kind of sucks. You are posting the ad you were *taught* to write, not the one that's in your heart.

Why should a slave have to post that he's ready to serve? Of course he would be... otherwise why would the slave be trolling recon? That's like wearing a hanky that means "nothing, no time, nowhere" to a gay bar.

And why say what kind of Master you are looking for? The ad should express who you are as a slave, and if someone thinks it might work, they should contact you to see if you connect. Then you get to read their impressions of themselves.

So... to be argumentative, you were taught that a good ad expresses a desire to serve and the kind of Master you want. I think every connection has three parts: the slave, the Master, and the connection between the two. Both parties need to be happy with how they see themselves, how they imagine a partner, and what they want a future bond to be like. With three or more partners, it's even more complicated.

I love ya Matthew, but your ad above tells me little about the guy I know. It just says that you are a willing slave and bootblack. It tells me you want a patient Master. But I'd want to read an ad that tells me more about *you*.

Edited at 2008-06-20 02:23 pm (UTC)

My gut feeling about this is that the primary issues here are your intelligence, your subtlety, and your intensity. At least for now, a good slave situation is what you need ... but on the way there, you're applying a lot of intense, subtle intelligence to a situation that cannot be understood by those qualities alone. So there's a certain amount of "churn" in your thought processes and feelings.

What you're going to need, in *anyone* you get involved with, is either a similar level of intelligence, subtlety, and intensity, or at least the ability to deal with those things (for example, a Master with more experience in role or identity doesn't necessarily need to be as "bright" as you about it, as long as he inhabits himself fully enough to respond to your needs).

What I'm saying is, whether you're right or wrong about the differences in profiles that you've just laid out: you're the kind of person whose brain is going on these things a lot. Many people would not even think to perform such an analysis, and many would not be capable of it if they tried. And right there, that limits the number of people who can successfully interact with you. The ones who CAN, are a good crowd, in my opinion, but it isn't just your kinks that limit your playing field.

Unless you want to start thinking about your brain as one of your kinks. Which is not a BAD approach.

Thanks for the insight. I'd love to meet ya in person and let ya see if yer correct!

I'm currently looking for a job. But I don't have any preconceived notions of the perfect job. Because if I looked only for, "gets to surf LJ all day, play videogames, and jack off to porn," I would be stuck because that job doesn't exist.

The same with finding a man. If I stuck to, "must be a left-handed Asian between the ages of 24 and 26 who is into polka" I will be single for a long time. Instead, I'm open to any relationship that might work.

I hung out with a "switch" for most of this month, and yeah... I think I could fall in love with someone where we traded off the top and bottom roles. And I'm getting out of a relationship with a great guy who doesn't have a college degree. Your advice is sound, and I appreciate the idea that I need an intellectual Master, but I bet two years from now I'm living with a pig farmer who doesn't speak english and reads at a fourth grade level. And I might be completely happy with that!

Edited at 2008-06-20 02:24 pm (UTC)

I've noticed the same thing about B411. I posted a couple of leather pics for IML. TOTALLY different crowd contacted me, and when I ran into friends during Bear Pride, they were all,"Ooooo nice leather pics, hehehe" Ugh I don't understand why more bears aren't into leather, but it is a disappointment.

www.leatherbear.com might be of use to you.

(Deleted comment)
Well, I know of *one* way to learn more {evil grin}

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In terms of success

I've found the opposite to be true. Recon has given me the most flakes, no-shows and wannabes...if any at all. (Although, I guess technically I've not had any bites at all from BearCiti; '411 has been very good to me.) Most importantly, I would not ignore you if I ever saw you on either of the maligned sites. So I guess we can extrapolate that there must be some other leatherbears thereon, ne c'est pas? Surely I'm not unique.

I love your analysis of the slave/master profile tropes. I had never noticed that (and now think back to my profiles and hope I'm exceptional). Check me out on Recon (Daddy Caestus, I think), '411 (Caestus) and 'Citi (Caestus), do I fit your pattern?

Re: In terms of success

No Sir, You do not fit my pattern for trope recon ads. However, i think You *do* fit my pattern for the kind of leather bear Master that i'm looking for!

i seriously love the requeen image. can i post it? it made me LOL so much because i know someone who has a ton of profiles on there about being a big daddy masculine leather top and he is nothing but a leather queen IRL.

Definitely use the "requeen" image. I thought it was funny when I did it, but yours was the only response that "got it".

Interesting post. I often wonder if an overriding curiosity for me might be - is the internet the place to find a Master/Slave relationship at all?

I have found there are precious few of these relationships at all. The complexities of sparking and managing such a relationship is such that I think very few are capable of the level of emotional complexity needed to handle it.

That being said, how can that level of emotional complexity be presented in a recon profile?

I am just not sure it can.

God, I miss the days of the old leather community.

let me ask you this.....if this was asked 20-30 years ago, people connected threw magazines with 20-30 words or less, yet they still connected....is there any diffrence between then and now....except just technology?

I've scared away quite a few potential and former suitors on b411 with the mention of leather on my profile. Then again, I've found that the few who have taken the time to talk to me and not be scared away by an online profile are generally good chaps :)

Recon has been full of flakes for me. A bunch of Sirs and Masters who tell me how I'm going to submit to them and what not. I point them in the direct of SIR and never hear from them again. Then again, maybe that's SIR putting the kibosh on that ;)

There was a short time

as a grayed out, where I attracted an inordinate amount of attention from, shalll we say, the submissive set- a fair number of would be slaves thought that I'd make a fine Daddy sort, at least by appearances sake. Alas, they were mostly disabused of th enotion, but I kept in touch with a few, and I learned one key thing from the lot.

Babe, if you are serious about this Master/slave thing full time- get it in writing: a mutually agreed to contract, covering each salient point on both sides, will be enormously useful in the long term. As one guy told me, the thing that made him realize that his partner was the real Master was when he insisted that the contract cover education stipends and retirement benefits....

Grace n Good luck, je?

Edited at 2008-06-21 02:49 am (UTC)

See what happens when I don't read lj for a while. Darn. :)

Ok, so, you've read my recon profile. I know you have. (: It's long, and wordy, and it says I'm not looking for a slave, yet I still get the "I wanna be your slave" messages. Are they just stupid, or can they not read, or what? For a long time, I refused to post any pics.. I finally did, and the number of "I wanna do X" went up, a lot... Sex isn't the be-all, end-all for me... it's about service, servitude, and the emotional connection... sex is what ya do for fun, when everything else is done... Am I just totally fucked up there? I mean, I know I'm not nearly as sex-obsessed as even my partner/hubby/puppy/whatever the hell I call him these days, but damn, am I really that uniqu

i can't speak for everyone out there, but maybe this is what's going on:

i think that some things are *huge* fetishes for some guys. And they can't understand it when other guys aren't into that. i've had friends say, "You don't like sucking dick?" with this confused look on their face... as if cocksucking is the best possible gay sex. The recon slaves don't understand how you could not be into their particular fetish.

Or maybe the slaves that contact you just have a larger sex drive. The Master i served last month wrote that he had a sex drive of 10%. His slave (and i) self-reported our sex drives at 90%. So, many evenings he watched TV upstairs, and His slave and i played downstairs. Hopefully, us two horndogs shouldn't feel dirty or humiliated that we are so cum-crazy... it's just a difference.

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