It enrages me. Someone on my flist has a sister that was justifying her yes vote to him. Her GAY brother. Seriously, if this was one of my family members, they would be dead to me.
My dad suggested aversion therapy when I came out to him in 1986.
I opposed Prop 8 and also I knew that no matter how Prop 8 turned out, the fight would continue. Neither side was going to back down. Period.
In retrospect, I'd say the passage of Prop 8 has been a boon to the Gay Rights Movement. It was the shock needed to revive its passion.
The No on 8 campaign was very tepid IMHO, almost like a manifestation of The Love That Dare Not Speak Its Name. I would literally scream at the No on 8 commercials for being so fucking weak.
On the other hand, the Yes on 8 campaign was fierce and relentless. They appeared to have no doubt whatsoever. Of course, I would scream at their commercials too. lol
And you are right about what you stated; One does not treat real friends that way.
I'm thinking out loud, but if Proposition 8 would have been defeated, I think that would have been the end of the gay rights movement. The only thing left would have been "mopping up": repealing don't-ask-don't-tell, transgender rights and health issues, and making sure federal laws are being enforced.
Even if the right wouldn't back down, they would have had a hard time justifying spending a lot of money when gay rights were passed in California by the courts, legislature, *and* a majority of the people. I think it would have been like abortion... where a vocal minority try to reverse history, but an effective stalemate has been achieved.
I'm talking out of my ass here, but civil rights marches for the African American community were at a height when there were laws at the federal level they could petition and win. In the eighties and ninties, black civil rights devolved into arguments about trying to get a good table at Denny's.
If gay people get gay marriage, transgender rights, and are able to serve in the military, what is left? Could we muster 100,000 people to march because there aren't enough gay people on network TV shows?
But, I have to admit, the march I was in Saturday was something I thought I would NEVER see again. It was amazing to see thousands of people spontaneously follow someone onto the streets and march.
Albeit, some were trying to escape Joan Baez singing.
What is left? I'm not counting umbrella topics like "helth care" or "unions". What discriminatory laws exist that are specific to the gay and lesbian community that wouldn't be covered by letting gays marry? Maybe I forgot about adding sexual identity to hate crimes legislation, but that's about it. Please post something more than six words.
Prop 8 in California is huge, and very important because California is often a trend-setting state for US civil law. However, California would have been a major battle in an ongoing fight; same-set marriage is still banned in many states; it was banned in Florida and Arizona on the same day it was in California.
And while the right to marry is of great importance, and frankly, a basic civil liberty that I cannot believe we're even still talking about... there are other very important issues ahead of us.
As you said, true equality in military service, stronger hate crime legislation, adoption rights, clear health and legal process and real equality for our transgendered community, real and equal protection under anti-discrimination laws...
Full and true marriage equality might bring major changes in legal and health care protections, so I'll leave those under one umbrella for now. And I know that I'm going on and on; so I'll give it a rest.
I just have so much hope, I want so much for all people...
We have come so far in such a short time, and that is a wonderful thing, which should give us inspiration and great hope; but we should not be complacent, or count the battle as won while we are still proverbially "drinking from the queer water fountain".
They should rephrase that to "But I HAD gay friends"
I've seen a couple of cars in the parking at lot with Yes on 8 stickers. I don't know who owns them, but I wonder how I would react if it turned out to be someone I know and work with closely...
I do agree with you here but I also know that some people were possibly confused by the ads from those who supported it and in that confusion voted yes when they mean to but that is by no means the large lot of them, most that did vote, simply did so because that's what they felt and if you did vote for prop 8, then yiou should not be saying things like I have gay friends when you had just kicked then in the groin, so to speak w/ your vote.
"If you voted for Proposition 8, please don't say, 'But I have gay friends.' "
But who would do that? I mean seriously - I don't imagine any of the knuckle-dragging bible-thumpers would even admit to having a gay friend, assuming they were even aware of them.
If only their heads being in the sand (or up their asses) FIGURATIVELY actually made it easier to give them swift kicks in the ass LITERALLY.
I don't see how they could claim to have "friends" personally... How can someone willingly marginalize, demean, and count as less-than-human, an entire portion of the human race; and still claim to be human enough to understand the concept of things like "friendship"?
exactly. oh, and because of all this, i just discovered that i have a person on my friends list who is basically of that school of thought. she thinks her gay friends are "cool" but blah blah blah religion-cakes blah
because she is young and because i barely know her and because we are the only mutual friends on each other's lists (i have a lot of young women on my f-list who found me through my other writing work, it seems), i am exercising patient calm while explaining all the facts to her. it's WEIRD. it's especially weird for me because i'm usually neither patient nor calm
don't forget to ask her (assuming she thinks this anti-gay shit is biblical) if she has stoned all the women in red dresses, or killed everyone who wears cotton and wool together, or eats shellfish, or if she figured out how jebus ended up with a dozen sailors following him around, and why only one of them got pissy and jealous...
I A W T C ! ! ! X 2
My dad suggested aversion therapy when I came out to him in 1986.
It is the last time we spoke.
I opposed Prop 8 and also I knew that no matter how Prop 8 turned out, the fight would continue. Neither side was going to back down. Period.
In retrospect, I'd say the passage of Prop 8 has been a boon to the Gay Rights Movement. It was the shock needed to revive its passion.
The No on 8 campaign was very tepid IMHO, almost like a manifestation of The Love That Dare Not Speak Its Name. I would literally scream at the No on 8 commercials for being so fucking weak.
On the other hand, the Yes on 8 campaign was fierce and relentless. They appeared to have no doubt whatsoever. Of course, I would scream at their commercials too. lol
And you are right about what you stated; One does not treat real friends that way.
~M~
Even if the right wouldn't back down, they would have had a hard time justifying spending a lot of money when gay rights were passed in California by the courts, legislature, *and* a majority of the people. I think it would have been like abortion... where a vocal minority try to reverse history, but an effective stalemate has been achieved.
I'm talking out of my ass here, but civil rights marches for the African American community were at a height when there were laws at the federal level they could petition and win. In the eighties and ninties, black civil rights devolved into arguments about trying to get a good table at Denny's.
If gay people get gay marriage, transgender rights, and are able to serve in the military, what is left? Could we muster 100,000 people to march because there aren't enough gay people on network TV shows?
Prop 8 is a bad thing in all ways.
But, I have to admit, the march I was in Saturday was something I thought I would NEVER see again. It was amazing to see thousands of people spontaneously follow someone onto the streets and march.
Albeit, some were trying to escape Joan Baez singing.
And while the right to marry is of great importance, and frankly, a basic civil liberty that I cannot believe we're even still talking about... there are other very important issues ahead of us.
As you said, true equality in military service, stronger hate crime legislation, adoption rights, clear health and legal process and real equality for our transgendered community, real and equal protection under anti-discrimination laws...
Full and true marriage equality might bring major changes in legal and health care protections, so I'll leave those under one umbrella for now. And I know that I'm going on and on; so I'll give it a rest.
I just have so much hope, I want so much for all people...
We have come so far in such a short time, and that is a wonderful thing, which should give us inspiration and great hope; but we should not be complacent, or count the battle as won while we are still proverbially "drinking from the queer water fountain".
I've seen a couple of cars in the parking at lot with Yes on 8 stickers. I don't know who owns them, but I wonder how I would react if it turned out to be someone I know and work with closely...
*golf clap*
* government out of the marriage business NOW k-thx-bye *
But who would do that? I mean seriously - I don't imagine any of the knuckle-dragging bible-thumpers would even admit to having a gay friend, assuming they were even aware of them.
If only their heads being in the sand (or up their asses) FIGURATIVELY actually made it easier to give them swift kicks in the ass LITERALLY.
Re: * government out of the marriage business NOW k-thx-bye *
Sorry, failure to grok.
because she is young and because i barely know her and because we are the only mutual friends on each other's lists (i have a lot of young women on my f-list who found me through my other writing work, it seems), i am exercising patient calm while explaining all the facts to her. it's WEIRD. it's especially weird for me because i'm usually neither patient nor calm
Edited at 2008-11-19 01:16 am (UTC)
You will have NO gay friends after voting for Prop 8.
You don't deserve gay friends after voting for Prop 8.